Opt Out Fams: Q&A
On giving (or not giving) kids a phone to walk the streets of NYC…
Q: “We live in New York City and have 2 girls who we homeschool. We have very minimal screen time (only movies on the weekend) and no Zoom classes, no iPads, no phones, etc. You mentioned when your kids start driving you will have a flip phone in the car for them for emergencies. What would you do if you lived in a city where kids start commuting to classes (either walking or public transit) quite early? I would prefer them not to have any device at all, but it is NYC, so what would you do? I’ve lived here almost 20 years, so I know it seems crazy to let a young kid walk around, but our kids grew up here and Central Park is their backyard, so it’s not unsafe, but not the easiest to navigate sometimes.” -Courtney
A: “I LOVE this question, Courtney! And firstly, I commend you for thinking this through so deeply; what a gift you're giving to your children! Are you familiar with the work of Lenore Skenazy and Let Grow? She's profiled in my book (Chapter 14!) for the widespread public scrutiny she received after letting her 9-year-old ride the subway alone in NYC and has the most refreshing perspective on childhood independence, trust, and safety. She's been a very wise guide for our own home! I can't say what I'd do if I were in your shoes because I don't know the neighborhood, but I would think a TracPhone with prepaid minutes could work if you're just looking for an in-case-of-emergency situation once [your daughter is] 12? Hope this is helpful for you - and thanks again for your kind note!” -Erin
On opting out when your spouse isn’t on board…
Q: “Hi! I have bought the book and read the book and bought copies for family and friends. I am emailing because I am wondering how you would advise getting your spouse on board when he is completely on board with all throughout the house?” -Maryam
A: “You would be amazed at how many times I get this question! It's a worthy one, and to be honest, I have been in similar shoes with my own spouse re: mis-aligned views in terms of social media usage. I've had to really reflect on how getting on the same page has happened for us, and I think the below thoughts pretty much sum it up:
You’re probably not going to change your spouse in a handy persuasive speech. Modifying our habits, behaviors and beliefs can take years of trial and error, so I often have to resist the temptation to make the people we love into projects to be managed. The fact is, a lot of us live smack dab in a community that doesn’t align perfectly with our own ideals. And while some of us might pull off a single respectful and mutually-beneficial conversation that results in a family-wide change, most of us are going to have to forge the path alone first. Here’s a bit of advice along the way, and I also highly recommend this conversation!
1. Fill them in. Sit down with your spouse to discuss tech and talk about the why. Why is this important to you? Why is it essential to you? What has led you to your own shift, and what do you hope to accomplish? Be clear and honest about your own perspective — where you’ve been with your own tech usage, and where you’d like to walk toward. Stating your expectations and experiences will both affirm your own choices and inform others of your choices. No one’s a mind reader here! A good place to start is the simple realization that, according to this study, parent-technology use during parent-child activities leads to more difficult child behavior. Want "easier" kids? Commit to putting the phone down.
2. Set a boundary. Resist the temptation to assume your spouse will instantly fall in step with your convictions or habits. This is your path, and as it is with any life change, you’ll need to anticipate your fair share of swimming against the current. (Bright side: stronger muscles.) Take a look at your non-negotiables and set a few gracious, plenty-of-room-for-others-to-roam boundaries. Do you wish your kids didn't witness your spouse scrolling to veg out every night? Ask if he'd be willing to swap it for a family walk and push his veg session until after they're in bed. Do you want dinnertime to be a phone-free zone? Try an Aro box. Do you disagree with your spouse's social media usage? Deactivate your own, and ask if he'd respectfully leave photos of the children off his feed. (This should be enough to convince any spouse, if nothing else!) Do you wish your spouse wouldn't sit your kids in front of video games or TV quite so much? Ask him if he'd mind introducing the kids to a childhood routine or game he loved, like Saturday bike rides for ice cream or a pick-up basketball game at the park or a rainy day Battleship marathon. (I'd also venture to argue that not all tech is created equal, so if he doesn't have the time or energy for any of the above, perhaps there's a classic movie he wants to intentionally watch and discuss with the kids as a lovely starter compromise.) Think of the area that causes you the most concern and ask how you can support him specifically in creating a net-positive for the kids. [NOTE: Sometimes this means more work for you, sure, and it might feel like you're the only one who cares about making such an obvious, positive change in the home. Avoid the pull to throw up your hands and give up, or to send yourself full force into martyrdom. This is your change; take ownership. Communicate your small wish – less tech influence in your home – but be prepared to do some of the initial heavy lifting yourself until it’s an established habit for everyone (and even then: patience, patience, patience.). ]
3. Think big picture. Keep your own self in check here. Is your perceived desire to opt out causing you to resent your husband’s current habits? Are you unable to appreciate the rhythms he keeps because of the one he doesn't? Think of the larger purpose: opting out of tech to opt in to life. If we forget the end goal (which includes grace, freedom, patience, etc) and focus on the means, we’re forsaking the very thing we want to accomplish. Our family’s saying? People are more important than things. This is true both for how we use technology and how we react to the ways other people use technology. If we can keep the big picture focused on people over things, the details matter far, far less.
4. Find support. Habit shifts are a long haul, so consider bringing along someone like-minded for the ride. Reach out to a mentor, put a few library books on hold, join (or start!) a Co-Opt-Out™. Fill your mind with encouragement and support so you don’t have to go it alone. Your spouse, as wildly lovely as they are, may not be able to encourage you in this area (yet!). Stay the course and be generous with the insights you’re learning. If you’ve made healthy progress, chances are, your spouse has noticed and is ready/willing to celebrate alongside you (and eventually, adopt some of your habits themselves).
5. Smile at the irony. If we’re paying attention for long enough, we’ll notice that no matter how incredible and life-changing our choices are, there’s a fair bit of humor and contradiction in each. I can’t tell you how many times my spouse has solved a problem, constructed something new, or researched a solution based on a tutorial he found on the Internet. The truth is, we all benefit from differing perspectives.
6. Redefine the united front. What “united” means: Joined together for a common purpose. Merged, integrated. What “united” does not mean: Joining together for a common result, or merging minds to wholly agree with one another, or integrating every life philosophy of your partner and expecting your partner to integrate every life philosophy of yourself. If our children are lucky enough to have two parents, let them see two parents. Let them hear two people who are honest about their two very different minds, but who are equally honest about their one heart.
Whew! That was a novel, but I hope it's helpful for you. Sending big hugs in the meantime, Maryam.” -Erin
On opting out as a young adult w/out kids…
Q: “I’m a 24 year old female who has been on a journey of deleting social media since i was 18. I’m so happy to see there are people starting things like this. As I’m reading through your content, I see that you are mostly geared towards children and families, so I am wondering if you have any resources for people who are starting communities of young adults to connect offline?” -Sidney
A: “I am SO heartened to hear from you! Keep on keepin' on! It is SUCH a worthy journey to seek a social media-free life, one I've found such abundant fruit in. I do have some resources for you on finding like-minded folks who are interested in more IRL and less online. The LOG OFF community might be a great place to begin, and I'd keep an eye out for the NoSo movement this November. I'd also look at a map of local Encode Justice chapters to see if there is one in your area, as I'd imagine there are many aligned values there! AND, I'd stay abreast of Digital Detox experiences in your location and consider launching a multi-generational Co-Opt-Out™.
My only other advice is to go first! Tell your friends how much you're learning about social media, how it affects you, and why you're ditching it. Ask if they want to join you in a 30-day social-media-free experiment (we're working on a free course now!). In the meantime, blessings your way. So very delighted to hear you're embarking on such a worthwhile journey! Cheering you on!” -Erin
On opting out as a co-parent:
Q: “My wife and I are 100% on board for our two children (ages 4 and 1) that we have together, but our hands are tied regarding my wife's two children from a former marriage (ages 16 and 11). Their dad and stepmom are entrenched in technology and insist on being in control of phone plans, etc., "for safety reasons." My question, then, is what resources do you have on opting out in blended families, where the other side of parents are completely unsupportive of this choice? I suppose my biggest concern is that one or both of our older kids will choose to go live with their technology-permissive parents if we expect them to opt out when they're with us. And if we do make compromises for the older two, how do we still establish good boundaries for our younger children and navigate their questions and concerns with grace and tact?” -Joshua
A: “Thank you so much for your note, and I applaud you and your wife for taking such a worthy stance as you parent your precious little ones. Well done, well done, well done! I know the road ahead will not be easy - especially when co-parenting! - but I know it will be ever worth it. Our advocacy partners at ScreenStrong have some great experience with co-parenting with misaligned tech values that might be very helpful to review - highly recommend taking a read here!
Sending blessings across the miles - keep up the great work!” -Erin
On feeling alone while opting out:
Q: “Are there any resources or a bit of encouragement for the mom who feels like her child is in isolation? I do not allow video games or phones and only allow [my son] to watch a few select shows that are on DVD. But I find that when most boys get together with him they either want to play video games, talk about the latest thing they saw on TV, or just not knowing how to be an imaginative boy and play outside. My son is very imaginative and creative and simply just wants to get on his bike and bring his walkie talkies and binoculars and find something to do with his friends... but i just always see it going the othet way with very little interest from.his friends or cousins. (They are all 5 or 6 year olds, by the way.)
I also feel isolated myself as a stay at home mother as I have given up social media for a flip phone. Most moms work and none of them are around in our neighborhood during the day, which means during the summer most of the kids are in daycare too... My son recently went to knock on a neighbor’s door to play with their kids, but then found out later that they, too, were at daycare for the summer.
It’s very hard right now and it is a lot of work to build community. I am trying to give up tech to give my son a more wholesome creative childhood with more personal interactions with other kids, but instead our choices have seem to isolate him in a different way. I’m not going to give up, but as a young person, I never would have thought this would be one of the biggest challenges in motherhood. I know there is no easy answer, but even some empathy would be a light of encouragement at this time! It’s not talked about much. Thank you for all you do for this generation and the coming generations!” -Sarah
A: [Transcribed]: “Hi, Sarah. This is Erin. I hope you don't mind that I'm sending you a voice memo. I just read your email, and email did not seem to do this response justice, because I hear your heart in it, and you're in such a tricky position, and I was right where you are, and I do feel like it's a very isolating place to be, so I just wanted to be able to speak frankly and hopefully share some encouragement. First of all, I think it's lovely that you've been able to preserve that imagination in your son and given that he's only five or six. I feel like in our society, five or six is kind of when the bifurcation begins, and you sort of move from that place of independent play to kids kind of seeking outside stimulation, and if they're given enough of it, then, yes, their play does tend to center around whatever society says is cool for them. So I will say one thing that was really helpful. Honestly, it just takes one other friend, and it can be a lot of work to find that one other friend, but I found that we have one very close opt out family in our life, and we just get the kids together every week, rain or shine, no matter what, and have been for almost 10 years now, just so that we know that, OK, they're going to have some sort of friendship energy outlet, and not in that we agree on everything, but we agree on the device thing, and that seems to be enough for us, because certainly, then there are other relationships that you rely on for other things. But if you can find, find that one other. And honestly, I met another opt out family because we were at the airport, and I saw that her kids were playing with paper airplanes and not on iPads. And so I said, Hey, I like what you're doing with your kids. I'm gonna give you my phone number. And then we started getting the kids together. So it's doable, if you can keep your eyes open for just one other like minded person. And I will also say, going to the library in the middle of the day as a stay at home mother is one of the easiest ways that I have found to meet others, because automatically, you know they're probably not working during the day. And a library is a place that, generally, someone that's a bit less device heavy will still really appreciate. So if you do have a local library you can visit kind of within a short amount of distance, I would try and start there this summer, maybe make it just a summer rhythm, to try and head in there once a week and keep your eyes open and see if there's other families that just are engaging with their kids. The other thing I will say is I would start now keeping an eye open for friendships where they're about to have children of their own, or maybe even people that have just had babies that you know, or people that have toddlers that you know. I wouldn't rule them out. I think we tend to look for kids that are the same age as our kids, and I found it really helpful that we kind of always looked to kids that were kind of coming down the pipeline a couple years after us, because we had been able to mentor the parents to help them see the beauty of living more tech free than others, and that has then influenced their parents, and now their children don't have devices, so it's kind of like built in friends for our kids, even though they're younger, there's there's some beauty and mixed age play that happens. So yeah, I would also just maybe keep your eyes open for people just a little bit behind you in their journey, because you will be able to be a trusted voice and guide for them, and you can help influence them for good too. So those are just a couple thoughts. I know right where you are. I'm so sorry. I hate that this is the whole world that we're giving our kids. I really, it absolutely breaks my heart… And I just always think, as hard as it is for us to parent these kids, it's so much harder for them to live as kids right now, and I love that you are giving your children that gift. So keep up the good work. I'm cheering you on.” -Erin
On keeping in touch with friends and family:
Q: “I love this all so much and had the privilege to hear Erin speak at Wild + Free in San Luis Obispo. I can’t wait to read her book; my one concern is that I do connect primarily with family and close friends on IG/FB that we don’t see often from back home in Alaska. I am often tempted to delete it all, but know I won’t text/email all these loved ones and it helps keep us connected. Thoughts or advice? Maybe the book addresses this as well.” -Heather
A: “Thank you so much for your kind note! The book does address the theoretical idea that connection and keeping in touch are often two different things, although our modern culture certainly marries the two. In recent years, I've learned to redefine community and connection as someone I can bring a casserole to, or someone I'm willing to call on the phone rather than "keep in touch" with via social. I've always believed that we can be most impactful in our lives if we, in terms of relationships, move deeper and deeper with fewer and fewer.
I'd encourage you to think of the relationships in which you're willing to text or call, and foster those. If we're not willing to call someone, or establish a text thread, or write letters to, is it truly a connection that will benefit from the time and energy we've expended with/on them via social media? Practically speaking, as someone who lives far away from many beloved people I deeply value, I've found it a lovely practice to send a simple audio text here and there as I think of them.
Once we break free from our years-long collection of people we’re following online, beloved faces and names often spring to the surface of specific relationships we’d like to foster a deeper relationship with offline. For now, a good litmus test for who to keep in touch with and who not to is this: If I changed my mobile number today, who would I notify? Proceed from that place, and let what happens next surprise you.” -Erin
On TV watching:
Q: “Hi Erin! Your work and this website are everything I have been searching for for the last 4 yrs. I love that you are all about opting out instead of trying to moderate most technology. My question is where do you stand with tv watching and what does that look like for your family? Thanks so much!” -Abby
A: “Thank you so much for your kind note --- much of this post that I penned when my oldest was young is very much still in place! We do make an exception for movies when the kids are sick, and they can choose from a set of classic DVDs we've collected over the years (we don't subscribe to streaming services or have cable). I hope that's helpful for you - we've found it to work really well in our own home!” -Erin
On setting tech boundaries with grandparents:
Q: “Hello! I’d love a gentle way to teach to our kid’s grandparents how harmful social media/phone use can be. One grandparent has shown my oldest Facebook and TikTok content and lets her play unsupervised on her phone while she is over there at her house. Meanwhile, we do not let our kids play on our phones at all. There is more to say and situations to recount, but I’ll end with how disheartening this all feels. My husband and I are setting a tone at our house but then can go to grandparents houses (who love our kids) but receive something completely different. This is in tv time, food choices, and on. We feel very different than our immediate family in our values. We really want to have loving, productive conversations around these topics. Any help is greatly appreciated! Thank you for what you’re doing.” -Nicole
A: “I hear you 100% - it's so difficult to navigate any relationship when shared values aren't agreed upon, but certainly moreso with family members! Have you read Grandparenting Screen Kids? I think it will provide just the right amount of encouragement for you, and I'd highly recommend passing it along to your childrens' grandparents.
I will also say that we've, personally, had to set many boundaries in this area (in many loving, ongoing conversations). When bringing up anything - food, tech, etc - we often start with something like: “Here’s how (and why) we want to raise our children. Do you think you can get on board with this? If not, what is the middle path here?”
For us, we feel convicted that we were given these children as gifts to steward well, and we can't compromise our choices to appease someone else, no matter how much we love them. One solution we often use is to invite grandparents to be involved in the kids' lives in neutral areas or situations, i.e. attending plays/performances, meeting for ice cream around birthdays, or at our own home where screens aren't present.
What I've learned is this: sometimes, honoring our parents looks like honoring the relationship for what it is. Some will be deeper, some will be distanced, some will be mutually respectful of decisions and some won't. And we get to move forward from that place of acknowledgment as we decide what's best for the kids in our care.
I hope this is helpful for you, and know you're not alone. Sending blessings as you find the words and courage to chat through these sticky subjects!” -Erin
On opting out of our kids’ photo(s) being shared on social media:
Q: “I wanted your thoughts on how you feel about pictures of children on social media. I feel fearful with new technology such as AI and how children's pictures from social media are being used. How do you suggest we go about this? For years, I have tried to keep my children's photos off of social media but as they become older and involved in different activities it is getting more difficult to have people take their photos down. It is so "normal" to post pictures of children that no one seems to even think twice about putting a photo up online where someone could potentially use that photo for horrible reasons. I have contacted my state Senator and Representative, news outlets, newspapers etc. to get more discussion going over this and the only thing I hear is that they are aware of the situation but unfortunately don't know how to contain it. I would think that a small step would be to stop posting children on social media. I would love to get your feedback on what your thoughts are.” -Ashley
A: “Thank you so much for your note - I love hearing of how you're actively advocating for your children (and really, all children!) for a brighter future ahead. You're right - this is an essential issue and you're 100% correct to be alarmed and start acting. Our course of action has been to opt out of most event photos where our child's name might be shared in tandem, and to avoid any photos of their face or identifiable features on social media i.e. church programs, sports leagues, community plays, etc. For example, when our daughter's photo was requested to appear in the newspaper as an advertisement for an upcoming play, we asked that her real name not be shared, and we asked her permission that the newspaper have rights to the image (a wonderful discussion with a 10-year-old, ha!). Truly, every coach/director/etc has been very receptive to the idea of not sharing our children on social media, and not only has it sparked great convos, but has really transformed the way these adults think of social media as well. The benefit is twofold: we're raising awareness, and we're keeping our kids' digital footprint virtually nonexistent. Sure, we're often known as the weirdos who keep banging the drum about the photos, but our family and friends have grown to be very understanding. Just this morning, a friend's daughter-in-law asked if we'd like her to leave our daughter's photo out of an Instagram round-up she was sharing of her wedding. We appreciated that so much, and accepted her offer with immense gratitude. It's a boundary you often only have to set a handful of times before it's understood, and as awkward as it can be, it's worth it.
My other suggestion, of course, is to follow these steps to remove any existing photos of your children that might have slipped through the cracks. I won't say it's not a cumbersome process, which is why I love that you're approaching the legislature to make this easier for every child. But it's a good place to start, and helps gain some of the control we've all lost.” -Erin
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